Last 7th of December we talked at the “Talk Ultra” podcast by Ian Corless regarding his participation to the Pyrenees Stage Run 2021. We leave you with the links to the podcast and the full transcription of the interview, which was really interesting.

You can find the interview at 21’30”:

Interview summary and Ian Corless thoughts:


Ian Corless (IC): Before we get too far let’s go to an interview with Jordi and Tomàs from PSR. I’m now joined by the guys from the Pyrenees Stage Run and here to talk to me, guys, introduce yourselves…

Tomàs Llorens (TL): Hello I’m Tomas, and I’m one of the organizers of the Pyrenees Stage Run and we have another stage run that we maybe talk later.

Jordi Vissi (JV): Yeah my name is Jordi, I am also one of the organizers of the Pyrenees Stage Run and also Costa Brava Stage Run we both the make or conform BiFree Sports, and we are organizing events since 2016.

IC: Guys it is great to have you on the show and I was very very fortunate to be working with you guys in the Pyrenees earlier this year and it was quite a week, quite an adventure. I’m guessing for you guys it was an even bigger adventure after everything that happened with COVID. What was it like to finally get an event off the ground it’s pretty stressful, right?

JV: Yes it is. We were like doubting a lot because we had to at first change the date from PSR2020 to PSR2021. We also had 2 changes with our other stage run so we were pretty excited but also afraid of organizing something in the middle of a pandemic. We count on mostly international runners, so it was also a big problem for us, so yeah we had lots of cancellations, people was doubting a lot, we were also doubting on protocols to go straight on the on the race and we are also entering a different country from Spain which is Andorra, which was also like a little problem added to everything and as you saw we have about 40-50 people in our staff so we also had to explain a lot all the things, all the protocols that we had to follow… and so, yeah, we were pretty afraid of everything but we have to say that from the moment that we decided to go on, we said “ok, we will be less people than expected, but we have to go on.” And finally it wasn’t that difficult, because yeah, we realized that people takes care of themselves, so we didn’t have any problem and people understood all the things that we had to do, which weren’t that much because we were almost all the time outside so it wasn’t that difficult in the end but maybe yeah, the previous weeks were a bit stressful.

IC: Yeah I mean, I have to say being there for the whole week, you know, photographing, writing about it, running as well… That from my experience I didn’t really notice COVID, I think it was only the odd times were we had to wear a facemask and even then it wasn’t very often and I think I think it went extremely well and everything that you put in place worked really really well. Sometimes it can be painful having to do certain things but it was a small price to pay for having a successful event. I think one of the things that bothered me and I’m sure it bothered you guys most is that things could change literally from one day to the next and almost the most dangerous period is that 2 weeks before the race because you just think: “Please don’t let any restrictions change please don’t let anything else change…”. How much sweating and crying did you do in that 2 weeks before the race?

TL: Well actually, not the last 2 weeks, but in July we had a COVID wave I think more or less everywhere in Europe, but in Spain we had a little peak and we were doubting by the end of July which is one month before the race. We had some cancellations and yeah it was difficult but as Jordi said, when we decided to go on, it was all in and we had to do it, but of course if we had restrictions from the government and it would have been very painful, but well, finally everything went well, we were a small but very nice group, we enjoyed it very much and I think it was really successful event I think overall.

IC: Yeah, it definitely was a successful event. When you put an event like this together, I mean the one thing that is very very obvious is that you want the participants to have a great time. It’s interesting that you call it a “stage run” and not a “stage race”. And yes there is a race in the front but really it is more about coming and enjoying something that lasts the whole week where you get to run with other people and enjoy the culture, enjoy the landscape, sleep in a bed at night instead of a tent, have some good food… Was this something that you decided right from the very start or is it evolved into this type of event?

JV: I think that almost all the things when you start, you just know more or less where you want to go but then time can maybe change the direction. I think that we started more with the thought of a “race” than a “run”, but we realized from the first year that it was more like an experience than a race. So, obviously as you say, we are a race, but all the things that you can live in one week like as you say, the culture, the local food, but also knowing people from all over the world, I don’t know, maybe you can be having dinner with somebody from Argentina as it happened in 2019 or I don’t know from Venezuela, so yeah that things make all this week really really really special and there is a race maybe it’s more like racing against yourself, like a challenge. But yeah, we think that the event is more… We like a quote that a runner from the second or the third year said that it’s like a life changing experience and we loved it and we use it very much.

IC: One thing that surprised me is that I find that the Spanish and Catalan runners are very loyal, they’re very proud of who they are and I was really surprised to find that at your event there wasn’t that many Spanish and Catalan runners and most of the people were actually outside of Spain. And that in a way, really really surprised me. I thought it was going to be the opposite way around that 90 percent would be local and the 10 percent would be international, what’s the reason for that?

TL: Well, people from here say that it’s difficult to have for example a week of holiday… It’s not difficult, the difficult thing is that they think “Okay, if I’m getting a week of holidays I maybe go running in the Alps, I maybe go running abroad, not in the Pyrenees that I have here and I can go during the weekend.” We believe that this is one of the things that happens and so we have a lot of runners from all over the world who come here as a running holiday which is what I think that the stage races are and ours for sure it’s what it is. And then, well, we want more Spanish runners, more Catalan runners but it’s difficult and we try but we don’t know, they prefer to go running abroad. 

IC: Yeah, I understand that if it’s a one day race then, you know, if it’s on a Saturday or Sunday then it’s easy to travel to take part and then go home. Whilst a one week race I understand the thought process… well I want to go to another country I don’t want to go to my home country which is I guess what you’re saying. But the thing is… your group manages to encompass several different cultures, places, landscapes, it really is a journey and even if you decide to do that on your own, with the pack and maybe stay in refuges or hotels just as you use in the race, logistically it would still be very very difficult to do and time consuming, and I think the one thing that impressed me about your race is that typically multi-day races are expensive because of the logistics, the amount of people, the accommodation… everything that’s involved is huge. The price of your race is like really really good and I did question this initially I thought “Uhm, what is the price that me, as a participant would pay for the price of entry being so low?” Because if you think about it you’ve got the race entry, you’ve got hotel every night, you’ve got food, you’ve got the race logistics… And I thought, “maybe it’s not going to be as good as other experiences…” but that isn’t what I found. I found that actually it was in sometimes better than some other races that have been double the price even triple the price and I almost felt, and it’s not often I will say this, that your race was too cheap!

TL: For sure we have these feeling with most European runners who come to the race. We know we are very cheap, and we also have the feeling that some runners don’t come because they say “Wow this is too cheap, what kind of hotels are we going?” Yeah, I don’t really know what to say… For the audience, and I think you can say, we are really professionals, we really take care of the runner at the top that week, the hotels are really well… It’s been a difficult year, in 2019 we had 120 runners and it was very good, so we keep the price for these COVID years, but now after the crisis we had to rise a little bit the price, but we are still much cheaper than Transalpine, which I think it’s a really comparable experience to ours, because it’s our idea to bring the Transalpine to the Pyrenees. It’s not like the Marathon des Sables or a race where you have to camp. It’s a race where you go to little towns to sleep in hotels… So yes, still very cheap, we rise it a little bit to make it even better if we can. But yeah, I don’t know what to say to that, we do our best.

IC: Take it as a compliment!

JV: I also think that it’s like a fair price. I mean, all the prices have to think on the prices that the costs are in the country, so I think that means you can not compare it to maybe Transalpine or Transrockies or other stage races. So, for us, on the first year we thought that it was a fair price and we have been raising it just a bit, but things changed a bit these last 2 years and now we had to raise it just a bit more than other years. But yeah, we still think that it’s a fair price, but we also know all the other parts that you were talking about, the thing that maybe too cheap is not too good.

IC: Okay, so you’ve set the dates for 2022 so what are the dates for the race and what is the price?

JV: The dates for 2022 are from the 4th of September to the 10th of September and yeah, this year we had to raise just a bit the price as I said and now the “Full Experience” package which includes all the meals, includes the eight nights of hotels because we also count on the night before the race starts because we know that most of the people come from abroad, and so that price is 1250€ okay that’s the “Full Experience”, we call it the “Full Experience” package.

TL: And just let me say, one thing that not many races do, but all the photos from the professional photographers that we have are also included in that price so we really like the people to have a full experience and take the memories home and yeah they are included here. I think that the only thing that it’s extra, is the last day bus to go back to Barcelona, and not many other extras there are because we like to include everything in the price.

IC: Yeah, this year when I was at the race and I was on the bus going back to Barcelona with the runners and I was sitting next to another runner and I was talking about the price and I sort of like, we were looking at each other saying: “I don’t know how you do this race for this price…” Because I was trying to think about if I went to Spain for 8 nights and stayed in Andorra and moved around it would be 100€ a night for a hotel then I would have dinner… so I’m already at the price of your race, so I mean I obviously understand that you can do deals with hotels and and you can get help from the tourist board etc. and of course that’s what every race does. And I don’t want to dwell on the price too much because I think folks if you’re listening, and I’m not being paid to say, this really is a great value race and if you want a week’s holiday where there is no hidden extras you know, Pyrenees Stage Run is the absolutely perfect place for you to go to and the thing is you’re not running the loops you’re not running the same ground you’re actually on a journey from one place to the next and I think, for me, that is the most important thing. If you start in Spain and then you move to Andorra and then you move back… And the other thing to emphasize here and this is not to put people off: it is not an easy road. There is plenty of technical challenges there’s nothing scary or dangerous but it’s not too easy and I think what’s great about this race is that you have hard days but really relaxing nights and that compensates for the hard days and so you don’t have to suffer all the time, you can suffer during the day and have a glass of wine or a beer and a nice dinner at night and then get at bed and go out and run the next day. And I think that’s a really key part of this and that’s why it can appeal to so many different people.

JV: Yeah, I also think the same, we have a really difficult days, but we have maybe 3 long days but the other days maybe at first hour in the afternoon you are in the finish line and as you say then you have really relaxing nights because you don’t have to go to an hotel that is maybe 10 kilometers away, you have to find a taxi to go there and then go back to the dinner… you don’t have to do that thing. We always try to have the hotels really really close to the finish line so people can go there after the stage and then relax, as you say, have a glass of wine or a beer and then we have the dinner all together. Before going to bed we see all the photos and the videos from the day and we also the winners of the stage, we do the briefing for next stage, and I think that it is also a key for finishing the stage race.

TL: As you were saying, the route, focusing on the route, it’s a thing that comes with the route but it’s as it is, so we have long days but usually the next day it’s a shorter day and not as technical. For example before entering Andorra we have the longest stage which is 45k, but then the next day we have an easy short stage of 20k. And 5 and 6 is the same, the the fifth stage is very long and it has a really technical part but then we have a 26k which allows you to relax more, not only in the afternoon but also the length of the stages compensates one with the other one.

IC: Yeah, and I think it’s important to say now is that obviously on the podcast we can’t go into the detail of each stage so folks listening I’m going to put links in the show notes which will go to my daily reviews of the race this year and you’ll be able to get a summary of the day and you’ll see what the terrain of each day was like, and then if you want to see more you can go to my image galleries which will show you the full days photography which gives you a pretty much all encompassing look of what each day look like because I can’t remember what distance I ran this year at the race but I probably ran about two thirds of the race I think I’m not exactly sure. I think I was probably averaging more like 25 to 28 a day. So I got to see in real time and I think that is the thing that’s important about this race is that not only is it the best way to see this landscape, that landscape is there to be experienced, and if you think about a classic stage leaving Andorra in Arinsal and heading through that terrain I mean that particular day we had wet, we had wind, and I think a lot of us was thinking “Oh, this is not going to be a really good day”. But actually it was a brilliant day because the wet and the harsh terrain all seemed to come together to make even more epic and I think it was probably one of the days that people remember the most and then a little bit later in the race you have the day with all the massive boulders which seems to be going on forever but the visual side of it compensates for the difficulty of moving. And I also think that yes, some of the days are quite challenging but even if you are walking and jogging you still have plenty of time to do it and I guess that’s a key consideration for you guys.

JV: The race, we say that it’s thought for the middle-lower part of the classification so that everyone can enjoy all that really really technical parts, all that boulders on the last day and where you were slower than walking for lots of hours… So we always think on that people that will need lots of hours to do it, because we want everyone to experience the Pyrenees Stage Run, so the time cuts are thought on these people, so walking and a little bit of jogging. And then that day, so it was day 7 and also day 5, which was the day in Arinsal, maybe are the slowest and the days that people will remember that will last forever in their minds because of the difficulty or the weather but for sure that most of the people that have come have been able to do it.

TL: Yeah, as you say it’s a difficult route let’s say at some points, just some parts, but it’s not really impressive or that you have to use a rope. And then, we’ve had 400 runners more or less in in all the years of running the route and we’ve only used the cut off time for three runners I think in all this time, so the time limits are really well. Of course you need to run in the flat, you need to run when you can jog at small downhills, in the flat but a lot of people walks a lot in this route, but you can still do it because the longest the stages also have parts that can be very runnable and as I say, the time limits it’s not a problem. And it’s not a problem the first day never, it’s the third or fifth day where it also comes the fatigue…

JV: One other thing is that it seems that people do the homework, so I think that most of the runners that we have, really take a deep look on our website to see the terrain, lots of people email us to say “what’s the terrain on this stage or the other?, will it be really slow or not?”. So I think that most of the people are really concerned on what they will find and they are also really experienced runners most of them, which is good.

IC: Okay, so just to put the listeners out of their misery because they’re probably wondering, you know, Where does the race start? Where does the race finish? What are the daily distances? So give me a synopsis as briefly as you can of day one through to the end and where it starts where it finishes and the daily distances.

TL: So, we start in Ribes de Freser, it’s a small town and, let’s say, where the “higher” Pyrenees start, so from the Mediterranean Sea, Ribes de Freser is where you find the first 2000 meters mountains, okay? It’s 2 hours by train from Barcelona so it’s really easy to fly to Barcelona and get to Ribes, that’s why we started here also. And then from here, we go to the west, following always the Pyrenees and mostly the GR11 which is the route that crosses all the Pyrenees. And we finish in Salardú which is right in the middle of the Pyrenees.

So, first the stage, 34k and 2000m uphill, it’s almost a loop, not 100% percent loop but it’s a nice way to start and you get to a peak of 2500m the first day.

Then second day it’s a transition stage, 37k, so it’s longer but it’s faster that stage, 1700m uphill and it’s a runnable terrain all the time and it’s a transition.

Third the stage we get into Andorra, from Puigcerdà to Encamp in Andorra. It’s the longest stage with 47 kilometers and 2600m. It’s not technical this stage, it’s very long but it doesn’t have any very technical part, which allows people to run a lot. And it’s also I think overall very nice, we get to Andorra through a National Park. Yeah, and overall during the whole route we cross 5 Natural Parks so it’s really nice.

Then from Andorra we have a really short stage, 20k from Encamp to Arinsal. It’s only 20k, it’s not technical, but it’s 1900m, so for 20 kilometers it’s quite a lot but we have all the runners finishing before 2:30PM, and in the afternoon, we allow the runners, if they want, to go by bus to Andorra and to thermal swimming pools, Caldea, which is in Andorra, so it’s a nice stage. 

Fifth stage, 40k, 2600m, it’s also very long and this stage have a little part which is very technical, in the beginning of the stage, which is good because in the morning you already have done the difficult part and then the second part it’s more runnable, you have a vertical kilometer at the second part of the race and you are done.

Sixth stage, from Tavascan, we are already in Spain again, we have a 26 kilometers, this is also quite fast stage, so people can rest for the last day. And this stage also have a part where we usually put some ropes to help the runners, they are not needed, but we feel better with our volunteers putting the ropes there and it has one of the most spectacular views I think… This stage is just an up and down, and when you are in the top, on the highest point, you have a really nice view with 3 lakes… Well, it’s really nice.

And the last the stage, well, it has 33 kilometers 2300m uphill and it has a section in the middle which is about 6 or 7 kilometers which has a lot of blocks of rocks, it’s really slow… In the beginning and the end it’s really fast but just this 7k can make the stage very slow and and we go up to 2700 meters, but when you are there in the last day, well, I think that the runners really say “okay, I’m doing it and I’m finishing it”, so it’s worth it.

IC: Yeah, I mean the one thing that I loved about the race, is that you would think that it was probably quite similar everyday and it’s not, you know, day 1 is completely different to day 2, day 2 is completely different to day 3, and then when you go through Andorra it’s very different to what was before and after, and then you finish off with the last 2 days with all the lakes and the boulders… There’s something different every day and I’m thinking like day 2, when you said it’s a transition day. Probably in retrospect it’s maybe the day that is the least interesting, but it still has a lot that is great about it. And I think, because it’s so different to what goes before and after it, that’s what makes a transition day special as well. The other thing that is important to mention is that this race is undertaken as teams of 2 so runners are not on their own. What is the reasoning behind that?

JV: So we thought that it was the best way to organize it for basically two reasons. One of them is a security reason, because, yeah, we know that the stages maybe are not like ultra distance stages, but as every day goes on, you are more tired, so for doing maybe 20-25k you need a lot of time. It’s not like a massive race, we are at maximum 150 runners, so it’s really easy to be alone in the route for lots of hours, so we think that the best way to do it is in teams of 2 or 3 people. And the other reason is to share the emotions, to share the experience with another person. We think that the best way to do all the route and to live it, is next to another person because as we say, sometimes you see a really wonderful place and you say “Wow, did you…?”, and you are alone… And you cannot tell to anyone, so the emotion, we think that it’s less than a half when you’re alone. When you are in teams of 2 or 3 people, I think that everything gets bigger and bigger, and it’s easy when you are in a low moment to go high. And we think that for the experience that we have, all the people really likes it.

IC: What happens if a team of 2 come to the race and on day 3 for example one of them gets injured or they have a problem and they have to pull out? What happens to the person that’s left in the race?

JV: We try to make it really easy for the runners so everything we do, we try to make it really easy for the runners, so, in case of someone dropping off, the other one can start next day but he or she has to go with another team. So, the team won’t be in the classification of the stage as a team, because they are disqualified as a team, but that person can be finisher at the end and he can go on participating in the race but he or she has to go with another team. It doesn’t have to be the same team during all the route or during all the days, they can change. And also, the one that dropped off that day, he or she can then enter again on another stage maybe next stage or 2 stages after and he or she can try to run another time a see what happens. She or he won’t be finisher but they can go on.

TL: And most runners do that, because they come just to have an experience. You can have a bad day, but we had a lot of runners withdrawing from the race but the next day they feel better… They had a stomach ache and in a couple of days they are better and they enjoy it as much as the others. They are not finishers but they take the same experience home.

IC: That’s a really nice touch, and yeah I mean, I think one thing that maybe worries quite a lot of people is, if they’ve never done stage race before, it can be quite intimidating when, you know, maybe they normally run 2 times a week, 3 times a week and then suddenly they’ve got to run 7 days and they’ve got to run bigger distances with lots of vertical meters and the challenge is huge. So it’s understandable after 2 or 3 days they may think “oh, I can’t carry on”. And normally, in any other race, they’d be out and they’d be going home but this facility to allow them to have a day off and then come back in, it is a really, really nice touch. How many people tend to do that? Is it just a small percentage?

TL: Well, as I said, we don’t have a lot of withdrawals from the race, for time limits I said 3 or 4 people during all these years and for injuries or for a stomach ache or something during the race I think we are about 10 percent more or less. If we were 50 runners this year, so we had 5 or 6 runners who were not finishers, DNF. 

IC: So it’s a small percentage, and the other thing that I noticed was not only was there a lot of international runners in your race, but so many of them had been to your race before, and it’s almost becoming a fixture on the calendar that they want to come back year after year and experience the PSR and the family and the friends and re-experience the route. What sort of percentage of people do you get coming back?

JV: We said about 10-15 percent…

IC: Ok, that’s quite high!

JV: Yes, it’s quite high, maybe this year was a bit more than that but yeah it’s about 10-15 percent. And we have like one exception, which is Klaus Kiessler, it’s a guy from Austria that this was our fifth edition, so he came on 4 of the 5 editions that we have done and he’s already registered for 2022. Yeah, we love that thing that people always say “Ok I have to come next year because I loved the experience and being with you and being able to talk to you every night and and change opinions and maybe have a beer before the briefing with the organizers…”. And yeah, we try to be really close to everyone because we say that we are like a familiar event, but also a professional event. We think that that mix between these 2 concepts is what the people really likes.

IC: Just remind me, is Klaus the one that brought his daughter this year?

JV: Yes, he is.

IC: Yeah okay, so that’s the other thing that I was going to talk, is the fact that say somebody like Klaus, who’s done the event 3 times, then manages to convince his daughter to come and join in, which makes the experience so much more special and actually is really in keeping with your event. And there was husbands and wives, boyfriends and girlfriends, girlfriend and girlfriend, boyfriend and boyfriend, so the whole mix gets covered and I just wonder where will it go into the future? How big can the event be? Because, I guess a lot of the time you’re restricted by hotel accommodation, safety, transport… I guess that the event can’t become huge.

TL: In 2019 we were almost at our limit, so, as you have experienced, we go through some very little towns where we have a couple of hotels and that’s it, so actually that’s the limit that we have. In Tavascan we have 150 beds… so this is our limit. Yeah, our limit is 150 and if we get there some day, which we believe we will, it’s going to be challenging because we go to these small towns, which is what makes also the race nice. I ran the Transalpine and every day we finished in a big ski resort. Here, we go to small towns which are… I don’t know how to say it… Really nice! And you get to know the people that live there… And if we were 150 every year we would be more than happy! We had a couple of years with 60-70 runners and they said to us “if you get big you’re not going to be the same”. But in 2019 we were 120 runners so almost that limit of 150 and we still achieved our goal to be a family, to be close to the runners… It was really nice and also the final party which is the day that the people really enjoy and it was all very nice and still familiar which is something that we really want.

IC: I mean, I think the thing is that with a 150 people you can still have that very close feel, that family feel. You know, having been there and experienced and seen the villages, I think that’s one of the appeals of the event, is that it isn’t hundreds and hundreds of people where you get lost, you tend to see within 2 days almost everybody. And you know, maybe you know some people more than others, that’s just the nature of the event, but you do get to know everybody. 

Now, before I let you guys go, you do have another event which I’ve not been to you which is the Costa Brava Stage Run, obviously that takes place in the Costa Brava the name is the giveaway. But I know from personal travels some of the areas that you go through with the race and I’ve got really fond memories of some summers down on that coastline so just give everybody listening just a quick overview of what Costa Brava race is about…

JV: Yes, so the Costa Brava Stage Run is the same concept as the Pyrenees Stage Run but brought to the Costa Brava. The Costa Brava is the north-east coast of Spain, so we go from a little bit more up of Barcelona, which is a place called Blanes, which is the place where the Costa Brava begins. 

TL: And it’s our hometown! 

JV: And we go up to Portbou which is the limit with France. So it’s a 3-day stage race and we also organize the meals, the transports, the luggage transport, the hotels… Everything is organized and you have two distances, so you can run 80k in 3 days or 120k in 3 days. And, at the end it’s the same that in the Pyrenees, it’s a familiar event, the maximum amount of people there is 250 because hotels are bigger than in Pyrenees, but the feeling is the same… We are the same people, the same staff putting the event. Also we have there 75% of international people only 25% local. And yeah, it’s really really good, we like to call it like a mountain race close to the sea, because you go through really nice trails and it’s a really enjoyable route. 

IC: The most recent Costa Brava event was not long ago but that is not the normal time of year, when does the event normally take place?

JV: So the event normally takes place in spring, so at the beginning of the spring. This year it will be from the 1st to the 3rd of April, and the dates may change a bit from one year to the other because the reference is the week of holidays that it’s here in Spain, so yeah, we have to move a bit because of this, but the month of April. And this 2021 we had to do it on October, a month ago.

IC: Well look, I’m gonna finish off by saying to everybody listening that if you fancy an amazing challenge in a beautiful part of the world with great organization, then get yourselves looking at the PSR website, because I don’t think you’ll find a multi-day race with great organization like this, at this sort of price anywhere, it really is something to be experienced. I can’t vouch for the Costa Brava because I’ve not been there, but it’s the same guys and I’m sure that they put it on exactly the same slick organization. I only hope that I can get back to the Pyrenees again and re-experience it because it’s quite an adventure. I’m guessing you two guys now are our heads down in planning for 2022… Have you got anything else maybe in the pipeline? Other than these two events that maybe you want to tell anybody about? And this is a loaded question because I don’t know the answer to this!

JV: Yeah we have something in mind, but we have to wait for some months to say it. But you will be one of the first person to know it!

IC: I sort of made that sound like I knew what the answer was, but that was me just fishing I really didn’t know. I was just assuming that it’s probably a that point where you need something else so…

JV: There are some things cooking…

TL: We would like to do… We love a stage races so both are stages and we love the feeling of doing that. We have been planning a lot how to build a finish line everyday in a different place and we would like to take advantage of that, and yeah we would like to do something in the Pyrenees with maybe less than 7 stages which is quite a lot. But we are working on it, and we don’t know…

JV: We’ll try to put it on next year… We’ll try to, let’s see!

IC: Well guys, it’s been a pleasure talking to you, thank you for giving us an insight into the PSR and folks, I’m going to put a link on our show notes to all the summaries of the stages this year and I’ll put a link to the race websites so that you know where to go and get information. Thank you guys!

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